tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156813738805135259.post5108863732790289951..comments2023-04-01T08:49:45.052-07:00Comments on East Bay Conservative: My Thoughts on Improving OaklandThe Bosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08650604704513105339noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156813738805135259.post-4669162450072797102008-05-22T12:34:34.000-07:002008-05-22T12:34:34.000-07:00HAVING GROWN UP IN OAKLAND IN THE 50'S AND EAR...HAVING GROWN UP IN OAKLAND IN THE 50'S AND EARLY 60'S, I REMEMBER WHEN LAW BREAKERS WERE OSTRACIZED AND PUNISHED. WE DIDN'T LOCK OUR DOORS AT NIGHT AND WE COULD RIDE THE BUS AND WALK AROUND AT NIGHT WITH LITTLE WORRY.<br><br> YOUR VIEW POINT IS INTERESTING. IT SHOULD BE TRIED. AS YOU POINT OUT, WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING HASN'T WORKED. IT'S ONLY GOTTEN WORSE. AN OLD ADDAGE IS "YOU GET MORE OF WHAT YOU REWARD".<br> MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP THE "REWARD" FOR THE ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR.<br><br> MY COUSIN GOT IN TROUBLE IN CALIFORNIA IN THE 50'S FOR PETTY CRIMES. AS HE TELLS IT, THE AUTHORITIES SLAPPED HIS WRISTS.<br><br> THEN HE GOT IN TROUBLE IN TEXAS. THEY DIDN'T SLAP HIS WRISTS. HE WENT TO JAIL AND HE HAD TO WORK IN JAIL. THE INMATES HAD TO GROW THEIR OWN FOOD AND SEW THEIR OWN CLOTHES. WHEN HE GOT OUT, HE MADE SURE HE NEVER GOT IN TROUBLE WITH THE LAW AGAIN.<br><br> THE TREATMENT IN TEXAS WAS A DETERRENT. THE TREATMENT IN CALIFORNIA WAS NOT.Terrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2156813738805135259.post-78952980636251393702008-05-22T05:36:34.000-07:002008-05-22T05:36:34.000-07:00Some thoughts: Section 8 already evicts felons or ...Some thoughts:<br><br> Section 8 already evicts felons or households with felons, doesn't it? Other than that, your characterization of all folks on the dole as being in league with criminals by buying drugs and giving them rooms is an argument weakener in my opinion, similar to that moment in a Michael Moore movie where he over-reaches and you mentally tune him out despite otherwise sound stuff<br><br> One of the things I've thought about a lot with regard to why certain areas of the city are nearly lawless and some aren't is a completely different contrast. I don't see it as a contrast of carrot and stick, I actually see it as a contrast between reachability at all and not.<br><br> What do I mean by that? I mean that there are two main types of societal justice procedure used in the world - legal-based (most of the West) and honor-based (mountainous regions of Pakistan, many muslim countries, Japan during feudal times etc).<br><br> The key difference is that a legalistic society believes that there is an honest broker of justice external to the participants in a given situation, and all participants will subordinate to that broker and accept rulings. In an honor-based society, no external source of justice is believed to be an honest broker, so all justice is done locally.<br><br> Everything I've seen about the areas of Oakland where crime is rampant make me believe that those areas have largely thrown off the notion that the largely legalistic thing most of Oakland and the Bay Area has going on simply can't reach them for good or bad, and they've gone honor-based with tribal justice.<br><br> So I'd take a step back from thinking about optimizing carrots and sticks at all and actually focus on simply impressing on folks that all forms of government actually do reach the area.<br><br> My only idea there is also not so much about community policing or not but really more about massive policing combined with outreach (similar to care not cash). A surge, if you will.<br><br> With a large enough mop, used in a consistent sustained way for long enough (half year? year?) it might be possible to really soak the whole mess up and get down to optimizations.Mike Hardynoreply@blogger.com