Comments on: Restaurant Takeover Suspects Caught http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/ Words from a Non-Leftist Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:57:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: mark ross http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/comment-page-1/#comment-2030 mark ross Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:37:33 +0000 http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/#comment-2030 As I've said before... police mop up after the crime. In this case they did at least a very workmanlike job of it. I object to paying any lip-service to the "social" aspect of criminalilty. It's the perpetrators who did wrong... not the rest of us. This is the land of opportunity. To complain that opportunity is insufficient for "social" peace is just plain stupid. If there is any social aspect to criminality it is a palpable lack of shame among the criminal class. These miserable felons ignored any honorable options and decided to prey upon the innocent. THEY are the ones at fault... and deserve the consequences. As I’ve said before… police mop up after the crime. In this case they did at least a very workmanlike job of it. I object to paying any lip-service to the “social” aspect of criminalilty. It’s the perpetrators who did wrong… not the rest of us. This is the land of opportunity. To complain that opportunity is insufficient for “social” peace is just plain stupid. If there is any social aspect to criminality it is a palpable lack of shame among the criminal class. These miserable felons ignored any honorable options and decided to prey upon the innocent. THEY are the ones at fault… and deserve the consequences.

]]> By: TheBoss http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/comment-page-1/#comment-2029 TheBoss Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:50:08 +0000 http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/#comment-2029 David - I both appreciate and understand your viewpoint. I just disagree. I believe a reasonable level of public safety has to happen first, before strides can be made in lifting people out of poverty. Otherwise, I think what happens is those we might help are too cowed by crime (either in the sense that they become criminals or just live in fear). As an analogy, consider the war in Iraq. Most liberals agree it has gone very badly, and that civil society can't take hold because there's no security. That's why they argue we should have used far more troops. Same thing in the violent inner city. Security first, then we can make some progress on other issues. David -

I both appreciate and understand your viewpoint. I just disagree.

I believe a reasonable level of public safety has to happen first, before strides can be made in lifting people out of poverty. Otherwise, I think what happens is those we might help are too cowed by crime (either in the sense that they become criminals or just live in fear).

As an analogy, consider the war in Iraq. Most liberals agree it has gone very badly, and that civil society can’t take hold because there’s no security. That’s why they argue we should have used far more troops.

Same thing in the violent inner city. Security first, then we can make some progress on other issues.

]]> By: David http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/comment-page-1/#comment-2028 David Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:21:37 +0000 http://www.eastbayconservative.com/2008/09/09/89/#comment-2028 Banding together to fight crime sounds great. Some people in neighborhoods around Oakland are trying to do just that by forming neighborhood patrols, keeping each other informed about suspicious activity, communicating more with police, etc. What I don't understand is why we liberals should also "suspend our concern about economic justice." If what you actually mean is that we should suspend our support for social programs that you don't believe will be effective, then that's one thing, but rising unemployment, rising consumer prices, stagnant (at best) wages, and dramatic inequality of educational opportunities are real and serious problems, just as crime is a real and serious problem. We should no more "suspend" our concern about economic justice than we should "suspend" our concern about criminal justice, in my opinion. Banding together to fight crime sounds great. Some people in neighborhoods around Oakland are trying to do just that by forming neighborhood patrols, keeping each other informed about suspicious activity, communicating more with police, etc. What I don’t understand is why we liberals should also “suspend our concern about economic justice.”

If what you actually mean is that we should suspend our support for social programs that you don’t believe will be effective, then that’s one thing, but rising unemployment, rising consumer prices, stagnant (at best) wages, and dramatic inequality of educational opportunities are real and serious problems, just as crime is a real and serious problem. We should no more “suspend” our concern about economic justice than we should “suspend” our concern about criminal justice, in my opinion.

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